Why?

Seabird · Testing The Water Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 7

Hi I'm new to the site and would like to thank everyone for posting as I've gained alot of info.

A few thoughts though... Why NZ... Well, being in the UK I guess it's partly what I want to see my hard-earned taxes spent on, and more importantly what I don't!! I am also lucky enough to work in Biotechnology, a field that the NZ government is expanding, so it makes it a seriously sensible career move. That coupled with affordable housing make this a positive step for a single parent.

However, I notice that most of the posts are from folk form Europe and N. America. I work in a very multi-cultural environment with daily contact with people from South America, Africa and all parts of Europe. Yes, all of them find England prohibitively expensive, but we tend to forget that when we talk about differences between developed countries such as the UK and NZ, in comparison to how two-thirds of the population live we're very well-off in either!! Most importantly WE HAVE A CHOICE!! So many people will never be given the chance to make a better life for themselves and their children where danger comes from what you drink or the latest political uprising, regardless of where you play.

So I'm making the most of a privelaged birthplace and choosing to come to a country of great beauty (NZIS and time allowing), but don't forget how lucky we are to be able to do this.

C. Nice One

Moorf · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:24 am Post subject:

I'd never thought of it that way and it's really, really made me appreciate more the freedom of choice we have.

Thank you for that post. Nice One

Moorf
Scotland, UK

Seabird · Testing The Water Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 7

Hi Helen

Thanks for reading the reply. I've also looked at Scotland, but have decided to, as you say, "go for it rather than regret not going for it", although I suspect the education is Scotland better than much of NZ. (My daughter's 12 and I'll be leaving a 19 and 23year old behind for a while). But we tend to forget what's important and that life needs to be a balance between high salaries and quality of life.

I'm also interested in Christchurch and South island, but it will depend on job offers as I've still to finish my PhD in October. I'm also interested in Vancouver Island, which is also very beautiful, and similarly priced. Despite being geopgraphically connected to the USA, I gather the politics are more akin to NZ. Is anybody else on the forum looking at Canadian destinations as an option. Has anybody spent time in both?

I'm off to Esher on Sunday to try to narrow the choice to one option, but any advice sought on this would be really helpful.

Thanks

Claire.

Graham Barnes · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:15 am Post subject:

Hi Seabird,

I've been to Vancouver and Vancouver Island (three years ago), and am going back this Easter; both school trips (I'm a teacher).
Nice part of the world, with very pleasant people. Life on the Island is far slower and laid back, with Vancouver being very similar in city layout to Auckland. The Canadians we met value their quality of life very highly.
There are strong American influences in a number of aspects of life; E.g. loads of shopping malls, everyone drives everywhere, large houses in suburbs (not politics though...the Canadians are more liberal). Food, housing, cars, petrol are all relatively much cheaper than UK.
Fantastic scenery with Whistler close by for ski fans. They like their rugby in British Columbia, but Ice Hockey is their favourite sport.
We considered it as a possible destination, but they're not short of teachers!!

Graham

Moorf · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:50 am Post subject:

Hi again Seabird / Graham

We too considered Canada alongside NZ but Canada is harder to get into for us primarily because my hubby's occupation (IT) isn't a priority.

Plus, it was geographically too close to America!

Hmmm

Helen

Seabird · Testing The Water Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 7

Hi Helen/Graham

Thanks for replying. It's wonderful to be able to speak to others who have also discovered the wide choices open to us for ouselves and our families. Graham, as a teacher I'd value your comments on Schooling in Vancouver and New Zealand. Also I was left wondering whether you would move to Vancouver or the Island instead if you had the opportunity. Have you spent any time in New Zealand?

I guess the proximity of Canada to a more extreme political environment than the UK v. the isolation in the Pacific is something of an unknown quantity. Gun crime is certainly lower in NZ, but health statistics are better for Canada.

As my eldest two are trying to become successful rock musicians, from what I read it seems that both countries are keen on the Arts, although I suspect NZ would be easier to get into as a result of the Government push for media development. Does anybody know whether the heavy metal scene in NZ is as big as it is in OZ?? Their friends are in one of the foremost black metal bands and are considering a move to OZ because the demand is much greater than it is in the UK.

I guess my decision made be helped by my desire to watch the water go down the plughole the other way!!! Nutcase

Graham Barnes · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:09 am Post subject:

We played against two Schools on Vancouver Island, and one School in Vancouver (but not at the school itself).
Pupils were incredibly hospitable, and our boys were billetted in homes for a number of nights. The schools seemed fairly laid back, but this was set within a tight framework (E.g. they had formidable procedures for ensuring that all pupils attended, and were chased up if not present). No uniforms. Pupils seemed civilised, and played rugby hard but fair.
Can't comment on the Rock scene though!!
On balance, I think I would choose NZ though...
1. Much smaller country, so much easier to get about to see different parts of it.
2. Canda seemed a bit "USA-lite"; nice place to go on holiday, but I don't think I would live there fore long. Although they are different people, but their way of life is very American, and I don't think I would like that (but a personal thing). A lot of it looks American, but they're not quite in your face about it all!

I visited NZ a year ago to visit my brother who has been a teacher there now for over a year. He 's teaching in Northland, and has some interesting comments on NZ schools;
1. After a couple of years of turmoil (new quals NCEA and pay issues), things seem to be settling down. He prefers NCEA to AS/A2 levels...he teaches what is worth learning, regardless of whether it is in some exam!
2. Very different emphasis to UK; schools are far more relaxed. E.g. dress code, not exam-driven, much larger emphasis on sport/activities during term-time. Pupils mssing loads of lesson time for all sorts of things.
3. Still some (lack of) funding issues, but most schools seem to manage them effectively.
4. No real behavioural problems although he has a few "head-bangers", who are effectively dealt with. Worth noting that the attitude of some Maori can be frustrating at times as many don't value education as much as Pakeha. E.g. Take lots of days off for family funerals/weddings, etc....Not a racist thing, just how it seems to him.

From my own experience, I visited Auckland Grammar where I was offered a job. I know it's not a typical NZ school, but they had large classes (expanding quickly). Many NZ academic schools are switching to int. quals because NCEA does not stretch enough.

Graham

Seabird · Testing The Water Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 7

Hi Graham

Thanks for taking the time to give me detailed info. I'm really trying to steer away from the British obsession with consumerism, so Canada may not be ideal.

I am very lucky with my daughter's School. It's a non-fee-paying Roman Catholic and consequently gets around the usual barriers to being allowed to spend Shool time raising awareness of values such as global issues. For instance they have just covered the concepts of fair trade and of stereotyping, which includes racism, disability issues and class descrimination. That coupled with an 80% 5 A-C rate last year makes it quite a hard act to follow free of charge. From the point of view of teaching, the concept of having flexibility in your approach must have come a real shock for your brother!! I firmly believe that kids learn the most from teachers that are enthusiastic and able to express their subject the way they feel best.

From what you say it would be worthwhile pursuing information on Sunday about GCSE availability in the state or independent sectors in NZ, as this is my only reservation should we need to return at any time for family reasons. Careful timing I would imagine important because of the juxtaposition of the seasons if you're to avoid loosing School time. Moving with two successive winters may be harsh on the spirit, but probably better on the pupil!!

Hope all goes well for you and your family with the move

Claire

Graham Barnes · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject:

Hi Clare,

About 30 schools in NZ have taken up international GCSE and A Level; they tend to be either top grammar schools (E.g. Auckland Grammar) or independent schools. Their move is very controversial at the moment, but more schools seem to be joining them. Lots of politics involved too!
The general feeling is that NCEA is a good qualification for the main mass of pupils, and contains lots of individual project work, but does not stretch the most able (10% or so). The main issue is that most of it is internally assessed by teachers (like coursework) which makes it difficult to get comparable standards between different schools and teachers.
MY brother's general feeling is that NZ pupils do not have the same factual knowledge as children in the UK (of same age), but can think for themselves rather better! In terms of actual subject knowledge, he reckons NZ kids are about one year behind ours...but then again, we tend to train our children to jump hoops in exams like performing dogs!!!!

Graham

Seabird · Testing The Water Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 7

Hi Graham

Just a quickie... Spent yesterday at Emigrate 2004 and felt that New Zealand was so much more the place for us. People seemed much more down to earth. Of course the fact that my 12-year old daughter plays rugby may have something to do with her feelings on it!! Found an engineering company who dealt with landfill and helped enormously (been working with one in this country). It seems wages aren't dissimilar to the UK, but housing and living costs are alot cheaper.

Just for anybody else who may read this forum I found out that the minimum wage in NZ is $9 compared to $6 in Canada. When the exchange rate was about 2.7 NZ$ it was 2.3Can$ to the pound, so NZ seem to pay better wages. I could afford the luxury of independent education if it became a problem, I think, so it's now 80:20 NZ. Going to aim to visit Vancouver in August still, then make the final selection.

Cheerio

Claire.

Graham Barnes · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:

Hi Seabird,

Re. cost of independent schools...
Their fees are more affordable (E.g. compared to average salaries) than in the UK. Typical annual charges for full boarding would be 13,000 NZD (tuition) and another 10,000 NZD for boarding. This makes about UKP8500 in total, which is about 40% of the cost for an equivalent school in UK.
Of course, if you're paying for this out of NZ salary, it's not quite so "cheap", but if you can pay out of UK savings, your money will go much further than here.

Graham

elekie · Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:17 pm Post subject:

Hi my names helen,
I'm 26 and my husband chris is 36 we have a 1 year old son and want to give him the best start in life that we can. What could be better than growing up by a beach, eating fresh food, in an enviroment where people have respect for one an other.
After spending a month there we were all hooked and hope to move in october/november.
Cain't wait think we might go mad and get a house out on waiheke island just for that in the middle of knowhere feel Razz

calin · I'll Hang Around A Little Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 18

I am from an Eastern Eurpoe country. My monthly sallary is somwhere round 400 NZD. This is over the average salary in my country. My family and I have had the chance to start the process of emigration being financially helped by our parents. I wouldn't afford to pay all the fees involved from my incomes. I have many friends who give up from the very beginning with the ideea of emigrating because they can't financialy afford it.

In my view, the best way to emigrate to NZ today is to get there as a tourist, find a job, then apply for residence. I can't go there as a tourist because of two reasons: I can't afford it and as an Eastern Europe citizen I need a special visa to enter NZ (I would have to get throughout a similar process as the one for immigration to ghet the visa). Now I waste my energy aplying for a job on the Internet, knowing wery well that it's unlikely to get a job this way.

My advice for all those who got the "freedom of choice": Don't waste time. Get there and find a job offer if you really want to emigrate.

rozzy · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: why New Zealand??

we are a young couple with a child who have lived in ireland all our lives. the changes we have seen in this country over the last ten years have really left us with feelings of disillusionment and hopelessness. although we are both qualified people (I am a mental health nurse, he has a trade), the cost of living and the rip off mentality that has been spawned by the celtic tiger has left us with little prospect of ever owning a place we could call home and living an existence rather than enjoying life. the facilities for children in this country have virtually disappeared as a result of the compensation culture that has swept through the country, the school system seems more intent on moulding machines than fostering the development of self aware, confident and well rounded individuals. car insurance has gone through the roof, i am 33 years old , claims free, and pay 1400 euros for third party!!!. my partner and I have been offered permanent jobs in Nz and have been checking out the property there. the chance of owning a lifestyle property with a nice house and room for some chucks for the same price we would pay for a half an acre with a 30 mile commute opened our eyes. Also in this country, if you don,t drink, you have virtually no social life!! I know that there is something better for us in NZ, i have a list on my fridge, reasons to go, reasonst not to go, i'll just say that the reasons not to go list is empty. we are flying in to nz in early september and will be on a work visa first but as sson as we land the agency i am working with will begin to process our residency applications. they are presently organising accomodation, schools etc for us and are giving us honest, and friendly advice on what are would suit us. I have always been an optimist, but i felt trapped , i know that there is more to life than working and sleeping!! So NZ watch out, we are on our way, and we will embrace the NZ lifestyle and culture and live everyday as if it was our last!! god that sounds morbid. PS thanks for the opportunity to vent my frustrations, although they are a bit long winded. Rhos.

westie · I'll Hang Around A Little Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 12

regarding Heavy Metal, I am abit out of date havent been back for a few years.There is a scene just not very big there a still a few clubs around that play metal but its mostly hard rock.I think Nz has moved into the techno scene more.I believe alot of people like metal in nz just i dont think there are many venues that play it.
I know melbourne has a bigger scene.